Spiritual Defectors..
...are attracted by the crowd. The bigger the crowd, the greater their interest.
...are fascinated by the supernatural.
...are interested in earthly or physical benefits.
...are indifferent to worship, (true worship.)
...seek personal prosperity; money, bread, health, satisfaction.
...make demands on God. They want a mechanism to manipulate God to get what they want.
...do not find their desires fulfilled in Christ because they have no appetite for the bread of life.
...don't understand divine revelation because they can't. They prefer lies.
...have no interest in embracing the cross and no tolerance for a crucified savior.
Now, for the most painful truth of this series, in my opinion: Spiritual defection isn't rare. In fact, it is normal. The process of defection begins with grumbling, then the defector will stumble and finally defect. While some give up their charade and defect outright, others remain in the body causing trouble and giving the Church a bad name. I think many are standing behind pulpits every Sunday morning. May God grant his grace to those who haven't completely fallen away and draw them back by his mercy and goodness.
So according to MacArthur, a "false disciple" is nothing more than a selfish crybaby who doesn't want to suffer.
ReplyDelete...manipulate God...
...no appetite for the bread of life
This is extremely insulting on so many levels.
Dr. MacArthur was expositing John 6 where the massive crowd who had been following Jesus left him. Despite all the healing, miracles, and amazing teaching, only a very small remnant remained with him; and don't forget, one of them was (Judas). The thing about that list is, if we're all honest, it could apply to any one of us. If you don't think you're selfish or manipulative at your core, then you don't know your own heart. Those attributes are as natural to us as stripes are to a tiger.
DeleteThe ones who stayed with Jesus and witnessed the resurrection did so for the same reason that anyone does today.
Thanks for stopping by, Alice. I take such long hiatuses that I'm always surprised when anyone comes back.
This is extremely insulting on so many levels
DeleteIt is, but they have no choice, Alice. The alternative is to admit that they could be wrong, which just isn't an alternative for some people. Hence, why you (and the rest of us "defectors") find ourselves getting the blame in some way, shape, or form if we follow our doubt...::sigh:
boom, thanks for helping me see the need for more clarity in the list above. Having listened to the series by Dr. MacArthur, I assumed too much of the reader, apparently.
DeleteThe context is John 6, when the massive crowd departed, or "defected." The conclusions drawn, listed above, apply to that crowd and generally to all defectors or deconverters (potato/ po-tah-to.) If your "outraged reaction" weren't set on 11 (grab the torches and pitch forks!), I think you'd have realized that the "crowd" is referring to the church, not atheists, as you indicated at your blog.
I have no intention of going back and forth with an sneering internet atheist. So, don't expect my blog to be another forum for your expertise on all things.
Despite all the healing, miracles, and amazing teaching, only a very small remnant remained with him; and don't forget, one of them was (Judas)
DeleteYes, but they (allegedly) saw these things and we have never seen them.
And MacArthur may have been expositing John 6, but I'm sure he's aiming it at those who once "walked with the Lord" and defect today. I didn't listen to the series, though, and don't intend you, I'm just going by the bullet points above.
In my life, there has been nothing quite as terrible to watch as a person who once seemed to walk with the Lord, defect from the faith ~ Cathy M.
DeleteMy apologies. I didn't realize that "atheists" and people who "defect from the faith" are mutually exclusive.
Where did I indicate that defectors and atheists were mutually exclusive? Clearly, not all atheists are defectors, and not all defectors are atheists; there will be some overlap in the two sets.
DeleteThank you Cathy for the links, I've been thinking long and hard about this over the past few months (several postings on my blog attest to that), have been listening to Phil Johnson on the subject, but will listen to what John MacArthur says on the subject. Phil Johnson also preaches at John MacArthur's church location in the Los Angeles area. I have visited that church when I lived in the LA area and love what Pastor MacArthur has to say (despite the fact that he's a pre-tribber and I'm a postie). Thanks!
ReplyDeleteEdit "blog" (singular) to blogs (plural) I have two ;-)
DeleteThanks for stopping by, Susan. I am trying to get caught up on my reading, but I will definitely make time to visit your blog and to listen to what Phil Johnson has to say on the topic.
DeleteOh boy, I know I've been guilty of seeking God's blessings more than Himself. It makes sense that those who come to Him - or come to church anyway - seeking everything that seems to surround God, but not seeking God Himself will sooner or later fall away. Especially since God doesn't promise a rose garden. In fact, we can expect to suffer.
ReplyDeleteWhen we create our own expectations of the church, or the Christian life, or what God is supposed to do, we are going to be surprised. (Frustrated, disappointed...)
We are seeking God's hand when we ought to seek His face.
Julie
So true, Julie. I think that list describes every "Christ follower" at one time or the other, but John 6:44 is the key to why some depart while others stay.
DeleteWhat concerns me about this is that these false brethren and false sisters, once they out themselves after it becomes too challenging for them, tell others that they were really saved and that God abandoned them. This is their "false teaching" and they get lots of people to believe this malarkey. However, it is all according to plan, because Jesus already knew this would happen. It is still upsetting to me however. And the admonition to the church at Ephesus tells those whose love has grown cold to repent (which I think might be the case with some of these, so I tried as hard as all get out to squeeze a repentance out of some of them, to no avail however)...yet, I must trust the Lord and watch my own steps. It's kinda hard to keep walking forward when you are trying to drag others along who just don't want to come.
Deletetoo challenging for them.....
DeleteNice.
Anyway, I don't think God abandoned me since he was never there to begin with.